Difference between revisions of "On the particle wave duality"

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(Side-note to the photoelectric effect: specified an "it" and added commas)
(Particles as waves: added headlines and improvements)
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== Particles as waves ==
 
== Particles as waves ==
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=== No regurgitation here ===
  
 
Discussion of the particle wave dualism usually starts with the double slit experiment.  
 
Discussion of the particle wave dualism usually starts with the double slit experiment.  
There's an endless amount of discussion of that already on the web already so let's go in a bit of a different direction here:
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There's an endless amount of discussion of that on the web already so let's go in a bit of a different direction here:
 
(If the reader is unfamiliar wit the concept they are advised to read up on it elsewhere.)  
 
(If the reader is unfamiliar wit the concept they are advised to read up on it elsewhere.)  
  
In the classical double slit experiment electrons need to be shot in as sufficiently widely de-localized locally planar waves.
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In the classical double slit experiment electrons need to be shot onto the doule slit
If electrons are instead shot in too localized, then they (due to the Heisenberg principle) necessarily need to have much higher energy and much shorter wavelength than the slits wideness and they would not form interference patterns but the classical result.
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* as sufficiently widely de-localized locally planar waves  
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* at low enough energies
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=== Why one aspect of particle like behavior is following from maximally wave like character ===
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If an electron is shot onto the double slit with one specific very high speed <br>
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(that would be a "maser" – a matter laser – not happening by accident) then:
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* (1) The electron has a one specific wavelength that is much shorter than the slits wideness and there will be no interference pattern. A very macroscale point particle like behavior.  
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* (2) The electron necessarily has a big non point like extension in space. It has the shape of a wave front that is spacially wide extended. A very wave like property. This is due to the Heisenbergs uncertainty principle.
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=== Why matter wave packets (in free space) make no good particle like behavior ===
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If an electrons is shot onto the double slit as a strongly localized wave package (not happening by accident), then  
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(due to the Heisenberg principle) it necessarily has a wide distribution of impulses, speeds and corresponding wavelengths.
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the low frequency parts will act like a wave the high frequency parts like a solid macroscale sand grain particle.
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=== The indivisible quanta of charge and mass being the true "particles" and they have no shape ===
  
 
There are two transitions in the double slit experiment. <br>  
 
There are two transitions in the double slit experiment. <br>  
The second transition is practically never mentioned. So let's do it here
 
 
* "waveification": Shooting one electron after another to proof they can do self-interference.
 
* "waveification": Shooting one electron after another to proof they can do self-interference.
 
* "particelification": Detecting electrons at the sensor (at a quantum random position) makes their wave function collapse into localized whole electrons again. There are no fractional charges distributed over the detector sensor.
 
* "particelification": Detecting electrons at the sensor (at a quantum random position) makes their wave function collapse into localized whole electrons again. There are no fractional charges distributed over the detector sensor.
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The electron really passed through quantum parallelly though the whole subarea of the detector.
 
The electron really passed through quantum parallelly though the whole subarea of the detector.
  
=== Waves as rays ===
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== Waves as rays ==
  
 
Given the wavelength of photons or electrons is short enough compared to features of a shadowing screen,   
 
Given the wavelength of photons or electrons is short enough compared to features of a shadowing screen,   

Revision as of 16:04, 29 May 2021

Particles definitely cannot be points with truly infinite small size and truly infinite density since infinite singularities always point to a breakdown of a mathematical model that is trying to describe reality. Also infinitely small points would need to have infinite impulse and thus infinite energy energy due to the Heisenberg principle (unless they are virtual particles). Before even that they would form a microscopic black hole.

While an interpretation of particles as almost arbitrarily (down to Planck scales) compact wave packages may seem as a solution at first it does not explain particle quantization which is the actual essence of the wave-particle dualism. Particle quantization can not be explained by interpreting wave packages as particles. At least not in the first quantization in space.

But what if the wave particle dualism is not about particles as in point like particles in space in the first place?

Waves as particles

In case of the photoelectric effect the quantization into particles is independent of the wave package shape. Actually a photon particle with it's very specific sharply defined energy (E = h * nu) and thus sharply defined impulse would need to be maximally de-localized in space. That means it would need to be a plane wave with infinite size.

Side-note to the photoelectric effect

The photoelectric effect says that when the energy of individual photons is not sufficient then, no matter how much one cranks up the lights intensity (intensity means the number of photons per time and area), there still won't be dislodged any electrons form the metals surface. (Assuming no secondary effects like thermal heat-up reducing the work function) There is an exception to this rule though. If intensity gets so high that two photons arrive at the same time (this is really very high typically only reachable by pulsed lasers) then their energies can add up. These are two photon processes lifting bond electrons to higher energy levels and these are used for

It should work for lifting electrons out of metals too.

Related: The "UV catastrophe".
The realization that photon quantization is necessary to explain non-divergent black body radiation spectra.

Particles as waves

No regurgitation here

Discussion of the particle wave dualism usually starts with the double slit experiment. There's an endless amount of discussion of that on the web already so let's go in a bit of a different direction here: (If the reader is unfamiliar wit the concept they are advised to read up on it elsewhere.)

In the classical double slit experiment electrons need to be shot onto the doule slit

  • as sufficiently widely de-localized locally planar waves
  • at low enough energies

Why one aspect of particle like behavior is following from maximally wave like character

If an electron is shot onto the double slit with one specific very high speed
(that would be a "maser" – a matter laser – not happening by accident) then:

  • (1) The electron has a one specific wavelength that is much shorter than the slits wideness and there will be no interference pattern. A very macroscale point particle like behavior.
  • (2) The electron necessarily has a big non point like extension in space. It has the shape of a wave front that is spacially wide extended. A very wave like property. This is due to the Heisenbergs uncertainty principle.

Why matter wave packets (in free space) make no good particle like behavior

If an electrons is shot onto the double slit as a strongly localized wave package (not happening by accident), then (due to the Heisenberg principle) it necessarily has a wide distribution of impulses, speeds and corresponding wavelengths. the low frequency parts will act like a wave the high frequency parts like a solid macroscale sand grain particle.

The indivisible quanta of charge and mass being the true "particles" and they have no shape

There are two transitions in the double slit experiment.

  • "waveification": Shooting one electron after another to proof they can do self-interference.
  • "particelification": Detecting electrons at the sensor (at a quantum random position) makes their wave function collapse into localized whole electrons again. There are no fractional charges distributed over the detector sensor.

Note that cooling and isolating the detector (and the immediate data post processing) sufficiently from the environment hypothetically could retain quantum superposition of detection within the detector. Final evaluation outside the well isolated detection and data preprocessing part of the experiment could then be done in such a way that the detection of an electrons position on the detector is not narrowed down to one single pixel but instead is narrowed down to a just sub area of the detector. This does not mean that we don't know which pixel the electron was detected. The electron really passed through quantum parallelly though the whole subarea of the detector.

Waves as rays

Given the wavelength of photons or electrons is short enough compared to features of a shadowing screen, there will be cast a straight-ray-shadow that matches to what would expect from point like particles. The "particles" here can be highly doe-localized waves here though.

Approximating point like particles with highly localized wave packets one gets necessarily widely distributed impulse. For matter waves where different impulses mean different speeds the "particle" will run apart the faster the more localized it started out.

While there are high frequency parts in the impulse spectrum that act particle like there are also low frequency parts in the spectrum that act more wave like.

Second quantization rather than spacial localization

Note that in the first two examples above we call quantized chunks of matter or light particles despite this having noting whatsoever to do with a localization in space. Wave packages in space do not help to explain these non-spacial quantizations.

Where else does the quantization come from then?
Quantization is always comes out of waves with imposed boundary conditions. But these boundary conditions do not necessarily lie in 3D space. This leads to second quantization. Second quantization meaning that the boundary conditions do not lie in 3D space but instead in the dimensions that carry fields (to check).

The association of "wave-particle dualism" with "spacial point particles" is probably mostly due to history and choice of naming. What about better alternatives names?

  • "wave quantum dualism" ... seems bad due to very likely incomprehension due to confusion with first quantization
  • "wave chunk dualism" ... could work

Differences for quantization into particles

Quantization of photons and electrons as individual particles is very different.
Quantization of energy levels of electrons in the sells of atoms is even more different (first quantization).

  • Electrons only come in one size of charge and mass.
  • Photons can come with any energy desired.

Related