Replication backpack overhead: Difference between revisions

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Relevant for early systems: huge changes and improvements, still more cleanup needed
m Apm moved page Replication backpack to Replication backpack overhead: the title should state the issue
 
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* [[Modular molecular composite nanosystems]]
* [[Modular molecular composite nanosystems]]


== Factoring parts out to reduce the replication backpack overhead ==
= Factoring parts out to reduce the replication backpack overhead =


If everything is factored out to avoid the replication backpack entirely <br>
If everything is factored out to avoid the replication backpack entirely <br>
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then potentially large parts of the replication backpack overhead remain.
then potentially large parts of the replication backpack overhead remain.


=== Factoring out subsystems fro them to not be unnecessarily replicated and/or badly bottleneck underutilized ===
== Factoring subsystems out to remove redundancy ==


Factoring out subsystems for them to <br>
not be unnecessarily replicated and badly bottleneck underutilized
'''Blueprint data:''' <br>
The most self suggesting first step is to factor out the blueprint data. <br>
The most self suggesting first step is to factor out the blueprint data. <br>
(i.e. not having the analogy of DNA in every living cell) <br>
(i.e. not having the analogy of DNA in every living cell) <br>
Then minimizing local compute as this is a huge dominant part of such systems.
'''Computing logic:'''<br>
Then minimizing local compute as this is a huge dominant part of such systems. <br>
<small>Imagine blowing up the microprocessor in a 3d printer to discrete components, every one as big as a nozzle at least, granted one can and will want to work with much less compute.</small>


This means more data needs to be transmitted across the interfaces  
These means more data needs to be transmitted across the interfaces which (depending on design) <br>
which (depending on design) may be more problematic for self contained replicating units operating in 3D lattices   
may be more problematic for self contained replicating units operating in 3D lattices <br>  
than for more distributed systems that have high enough throughput to stay in 2D.
than for more distributed systems that have high enough throughput to stay in 2D. <br>
Well get back to the higher throughput point. <br>


Up to this point from nanoscale perspectibe replication is still compactly self contained.
<hr>
Up to this point from nanoscale perspective replication is still compactly self contained. <br>
Changing below.


=== Factoring further ===
== Factoring further ==


But why not go further for massive gains by factoring out:  
But why not go further <br>
mechanosynthesis stages units
for massive gains in backpack reduction by factoring out:  
tooltip magazine units
* mechanosynthesis stages units
crystolecule magazine units
* tooltip magazine units
stick-n-plave assembly stage units  
* [[crystolecule magazine]] units
stage driving motor units
* stick-n-plave assembly stage units  
unit carrying units drive units
* stage driving motor units
crystolecule zipper units
* unit carrying units drive units
* crystolecule zipper units


All of which can me mixed an matched in willy-nilly ratios.
All of which can me mixed an matched in willy-nilly ratios. <br>
Just as needed for the most feasible way forward.
Just as needed for the most feasible way forward. <br>
And to eventually relpicatibe capability.  
And to eventually replicative capability. <br>


== Relevant for early systems ==
= Efficiency is not entirely irrelevant for early systems =


Beside the difficulty of compact self contained replication fro bootstrapping [[Proto-assembler (outdated)]] <br>
Beside the difficulty of compact self contained replication for bootstrapping [[Proto-assembler (outdated)]] <br>
efficiency is not completely irrelevant for early systems either because <br>
efficiency is not completely irrelevant for early systems either because <br>
extreme inefficiency translates into additional difficulty. <br>
extreme inefficiency translates into additional difficulty. <br>


=== More parts are less parts ===
= More parts are less parts (smaller replication time) =


A replicative system that shares parts with neighboring adjacent replicative systems <br>
A replicative system that shares parts with neighboring adjacent replicative systems <br>
Line 68: Line 78:
than a replicative system that is compactly self-contained monolithic. <br>
than a replicative system that is compactly self-contained monolithic. <br>


Several mechanosynthesis units per heavily shared infrastructure  
'''Hugely reduced time of replication (by more parts)''': <br>
give decent natural throughput efficiency.  
Several mechanosynthesis units per heavily shared infrastructure <br>
Much higher than than comact self contained selfreplicator systems.
give a decent natural throughput efficiency. <br>
Much higher than that of a compact self-contained self-replicator systems. <br>
Good chance this is a 10x to 100x in gain not just a few percent. <br>
Good chance this is a 10x to 100x in gain not just a few percent. <br>


And note that this higher efficiency is achievable entirely without <br>
'''No need for optimizing towards assembly lines''': <br>
Note that this higher efficiency is achievable entirely without <br>
going to any fancy advanced optimizations like nanofactory like assembly line processes. <br>
going to any fancy advanced optimizations like nanofactory like assembly line processes. <br>


When one is absolutely desperately pressing for the absolute minimum volume <br>
= How desperately pressing for the smallest possible atom-count badly backfires =
due to assumed (nunnecesary) restiction to one singe SPM tip (as that is where many autors went), <br>
 
then one theoretically could go smaller by a a monolitic self-contained system, yes but … <br>  
When one is desperately pressing for the minimum atom count <br>
There is big caveat that makes this backfire. <br>
due to one (unnecessary) assuming just one singe macroscopically local SPM tip <br>
(as what is what many authors did and till do), <br>
then one theoretically could go smaller by a a monolithic self-contained system, yes but … <br>  
There is caveat that makes this badly backfire. <br>
 
== Caveat excessive replication time ==


If the necessary replication times goes up into the month and years due to <br>
If the necessary replication times goes up into the months and years range due to <br>
the single mechanosynthesis stage having the responsibility to replicate infrastructure around <br>
the single mechanosynthesis stage having the responsibility to replicate (backpack)infrastructure around <br>
that has an atom count far beyond just the mechanosyntehsis stage itself, <br>
that has an atom count far beyond just the mechanosyntehsis stage itself, <br>
then for a self replicating "proto seed unit" with a mandatorily needed debugging cycle <br>
then for a self replicating "[[protoassembler]] seed unit" with a mandatorily needed debugging cycle <br>
getting to a working system in one fell swoop becomes just [[FAPP]] impossible.
getting to a working system in one fell swoop becomes just [[FAPP]] impossible.


Side-notes:  
Side-notes:  
* Monolitic compact self-contained self-replicators usually assume just one single mechanosynthesis stage as that is what maximally compact an absolute minimum atom count means. <br>Also no space for luxuries like pick-n-place that could make tings enormously easier.
* Monolitic compact self-contained self-replicators usually assume just one single mechanosynthesis stage as that is what maximally compact an absolute minimum atom count means. <br>Also no space for luxuries like pick-n-place that could make tings enormously easier.
* Side-note: The packaged infrastructure is necessarily heavily bottle-necked and underused by the stage.  
* The packaged infrastructure is necessarily heavily bottle-necked and underused by the stage.  
* Early nanoscale mechanosynthesis stages will run at lower frequency than advanced ones (there used sparingly for custom post-processing of molecular mill results).
 
== Multiplicative factors of difficulty ==
 
Difficulty from unnecessarily long replication turnaround time of compact self contained replicators <br>
is multiplicatively exacerbated by several further factors <br>
 
* The aforementioned slower speed of early nanoscale mechanosynthesis stages
* The non-flat non spread out geometry being terrible for debugging
* Assumed in place mechanosynthesis of an entire [[protoassembler]] with a single SPM tip.
* Absence of sellable products copared to alternative pathways
=== Single SPM in-place mechanosynthesized protoassemblers (very bad idea atop a bad idea) ===
 
Making the whole huge thing (huge compared to typical [[crystolecules)]]) <br>
of a compact self-contained self-replicating [[protoassembler]] <br>
via [[in-place mechanosynthesis]] and by just one single SPM tip <br>
is the usually/often/(almost always) conjoined assumption. <br>
 
This assumption is what big part of what motivates <br>
the common desperate attempts to absolutely minimize atom count. <br>
The resulting designs lacking a gradual ladder of stepping stones. <br>
They accordingly and justifiably overstretch suspense of disbelief of serious experimental folks. <br>
 
From a '''more productive perspective''' the issue is that there is a lack of better designs <br>
which build upon alternative base ideas for distributedly replicative system architecture. <br>
 
Base ideas like:
* [[Early diamondoid nanosystem pixel (direct path)]] … general idea
* [[Ambots]] … distributed but macroscale (all units just clutch just one is a transporter unit)
* [[Moses2014]] … distributed but extendable improvable and to be adapted for nanoscale
All these are swerving around the mirror flat non-scaleable cliff that is a protoassembler.
 
'''What about not using [[in-place mechanosynthesis]] then?''' <br>
When assuming [[out-of-place mechanosynthesis]] of [[crystolecules]] <br>
(with more than one macroscale SPM tip) <br>
and subsequent transfer and [[stick-n-place]] assembly <br>
then one already gets [[crystolecule stick-n-place]] capabilities early <br>
and distributed eventually replicative systems are a natural outcome. <br>
These even may attain replicative closure by an not as noticed huge event. <br>
Though one certainly will be able to and want to aim for replicative closure. <br>
 
=== Non-flat geometry ===


And that difficulty from long turnaround time is multiplicatively exacerbated by <br>
compactly self replicating system designs usually taking the form of 3D cubes <br>
compactly self replicating system designs usually taking the form of 3D cubes <br>
rather being laid out flat and thin on a chips surface for an <br>
rather being laid out flat and thin on a chips surface for an <br>
as easy as possible expeimental acessibility/observaliity/analytics/IO. <br>
as easy as possible experimental acessibility/observaliity/analytics/IO. <br>


It is a big if her eto assum there is a turnaround at all <br>
It is a big if here to assume there is a turnaround at all <br>
with such a compact cubes bad accessibility for debugging and <br>
with such a compact cube shape causing bad accessibility for debugging and <br>
with absence of any sellable side products for sustained long term funding of directed engineering efforts. <br>
with absence of any sellable side products for sustained long term funding of directed engineering efforts. <br>
Government funding for directed R&D has its suspense of disbelief limits too, <br>
Government funding for directed R&D has its suspense of disbelief limits too, <br>
and research funding is juts not directed and <br>
and research funding is just not directed and <br>
needs to justify itself to people with finite suspense of disbelief too. <br>
needs to justify itself to people with finite suspense of disbelief too. <br>


== Related ==
= Related =


* '''[[Molecular assembler (disambiguation)]]'''
----
* [[Why ultra-compact molecular assemblers are too difficult]]
* [[Why ultra-compact molecular assemblers are too difficult]]
* [[Molecular assemblers as advanced productive nanosystem (outdated)]]
* [[Molecular assemblers as advanced productive nanosystem (outdated)]]

Latest revision as of 11:16, 15 July 2026

This article is a stub. It needs to be expanded.

Or replication backpack overhead.

The more monolithic, compact, self contained, and complete a self replication process ought to be
the more stuff needs to be replicated and possibly even lugged around (thus replication backpack).

  • Replicating the code for replication in hardware storage (like cells in DNA) usually not considered for technical systems.
    Note on that further below.
  • Replicating status bits and compute that otherwise could be broadcast shared for several systems
  • Replicating data IO channels rather than saving by sharing them over bigger subsystems
  • Replicating higher assembly levels stages for each system making them heavily underutilized rather than sharing
  • restricted balancing with power units
  • and many more

More distributed systems can avert these issues: See:

Factoring parts out to reduce the replication backpack overhead

If everything is factored out to avoid the replication backpack entirely
then the system is no longer a compactly self-contained self-replicating one
and one instead gets a distributed system of completely different character.
Early diamondoid nanosystem pixel (direct path)

If only parts are factored out
then potentially large parts of the replication backpack overhead remain.

Factoring subsystems out to remove redundancy

Factoring out subsystems for them to
not be unnecessarily replicated and badly bottleneck underutilized

Blueprint data:
The most self suggesting first step is to factor out the blueprint data.
(i.e. not having the analogy of DNA in every living cell)
Computing logic:
Then minimizing local compute as this is a huge dominant part of such systems.
Imagine blowing up the microprocessor in a 3d printer to discrete components, every one as big as a nozzle at least, granted one can and will want to work with much less compute.

These means more data needs to be transmitted across the interfaces which (depending on design)
may be more problematic for self contained replicating units operating in 3D lattices
than for more distributed systems that have high enough throughput to stay in 2D.
Well get back to the higher throughput point.


Up to this point from nanoscale perspective replication is still compactly self contained.
Changing below.

Factoring further

But why not go further
for massive gains in backpack reduction by factoring out:

  • mechanosynthesis stages units
  • tooltip magazine units
  • crystolecule magazine units
  • stick-n-plave assembly stage units
  • stage driving motor units
  • unit carrying units drive units
  • crystolecule zipper units

All of which can me mixed an matched in willy-nilly ratios.
Just as needed for the most feasible way forward.
And to eventually replicative capability.

Efficiency is not entirely irrelevant for early systems

Beside the difficulty of compact self contained replication for bootstrapping Proto-assembler (outdated)
efficiency is not completely irrelevant for early systems either because
extreme inefficiency translates into additional difficulty.

More parts are less parts (smaller replication time)

A replicative system that shares parts with neighboring adjacent replicative systems
i.e. a replicative system that is dispersed and has blurred boundaries between the replicative units
needs overall significantly less parts per averaged replicative unit
than a replicative system that is compactly self-contained monolithic.

Hugely reduced time of replication (by more parts):
Several mechanosynthesis units per heavily shared infrastructure
give a decent natural throughput efficiency.
Much higher than that of a compact self-contained self-replicator systems.
Good chance this is a 10x to 100x in gain not just a few percent.

No need for optimizing towards assembly lines:
Note that this higher efficiency is achievable entirely without
going to any fancy advanced optimizations like nanofactory like assembly line processes.

How desperately pressing for the smallest possible atom-count badly backfires

When one is desperately pressing for the minimum atom count
due to one (unnecessary) assuming just one singe macroscopically local SPM tip
(as what is what many authors did and till do),
then one theoretically could go smaller by a a monolithic self-contained system, yes but …
There is caveat that makes this badly backfire.

Caveat excessive replication time

If the necessary replication times goes up into the months and years range due to
the single mechanosynthesis stage having the responsibility to replicate (backpack)infrastructure around
that has an atom count far beyond just the mechanosyntehsis stage itself,
then for a self replicating "protoassembler seed unit" with a mandatorily needed debugging cycle
getting to a working system in one fell swoop becomes just FAPP impossible.

Side-notes:

  • Monolitic compact self-contained self-replicators usually assume just one single mechanosynthesis stage as that is what maximally compact an absolute minimum atom count means.
    Also no space for luxuries like pick-n-place that could make tings enormously easier.
  • The packaged infrastructure is necessarily heavily bottle-necked and underused by the stage.
  • Early nanoscale mechanosynthesis stages will run at lower frequency than advanced ones (there used sparingly for custom post-processing of molecular mill results).

Multiplicative factors of difficulty

Difficulty from unnecessarily long replication turnaround time of compact self contained replicators
is multiplicatively exacerbated by several further factors

  • The aforementioned slower speed of early nanoscale mechanosynthesis stages
  • The non-flat non spread out geometry being terrible for debugging
  • Assumed in place mechanosynthesis of an entire protoassembler with a single SPM tip.
  • Absence of sellable products copared to alternative pathways

Single SPM in-place mechanosynthesized protoassemblers (very bad idea atop a bad idea)

Making the whole huge thing (huge compared to typical crystolecules))
of a compact self-contained self-replicating protoassembler
via in-place mechanosynthesis and by just one single SPM tip
is the usually/often/(almost always) conjoined assumption.

This assumption is what big part of what motivates
the common desperate attempts to absolutely minimize atom count.
The resulting designs lacking a gradual ladder of stepping stones.
They accordingly and justifiably overstretch suspense of disbelief of serious experimental folks.

From a more productive perspective the issue is that there is a lack of better designs
which build upon alternative base ideas for distributedly replicative system architecture.

Base ideas like:

All these are swerving around the mirror flat non-scaleable cliff that is a protoassembler.

What about not using in-place mechanosynthesis then?
When assuming out-of-place mechanosynthesis of crystolecules
(with more than one macroscale SPM tip)
and subsequent transfer and stick-n-place assembly
then one already gets crystolecule stick-n-place capabilities early
and distributed eventually replicative systems are a natural outcome.
These even may attain replicative closure by an not as noticed huge event.
Though one certainly will be able to and want to aim for replicative closure.

Non-flat geometry

compactly self replicating system designs usually taking the form of 3D cubes
rather being laid out flat and thin on a chips surface for an
as easy as possible experimental acessibility/observaliity/analytics/IO.

It is a big if here to assume there is a turnaround at all …
– with such a compact cube shape causing bad accessibility for debugging and
– with absence of any sellable side products for sustained long term funding of directed engineering efforts.
… Government funding for directed R&D has its suspense of disbelief limits too,
… and research funding is just not directed and
… needs to justify itself to people with finite suspense of disbelief too.

Related