SPM force feedback - Revision history

Apm: Category:Direct path

2026-03-29T18:58:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:58, 29 March 2026
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	* [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37783064/ (open access) 2023 – Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control] <br> Freeman M, Applestone R, Behn W, Brar V. Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control. Ultramicroscopy. 2024 Jan;255:113856. doi: 10.1016/j.ultramic.2023.113856. Epub 2023 Sep 22. PMID: 37783064.		* [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37783064/ (open access) 2023 – Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control] <br> Freeman M, Applestone R, Behn W, Brar V. Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control. Ultramicroscopy. 2024 Jan;255:113856. doi: 10.1016/j.ultramic.2023.113856. Epub 2023 Sep 22. PMID: 37783064.
	* 3D Systems Touch haptic device <br>https://www.3dsystems.com/haptics-devices/touch		* 3D Systems Touch haptic device <br>https://www.3dsystems.com/haptics-devices/touch

			[[Category:Direct path]]

Apm: /* 3D pen force feedback devices */

2025-06-23T09:52:44Z

3D pen force feedback devices

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:52, 23 June 2025
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	== 3D pen force feedback devices ==		== 3D pen force feedback devices ==
	{{wikitodo\|Add image of the device ~~fro~~ illustration.}}		{{wikitodo\|Add image of the device for illustration.}}

	Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>		Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>

Apm: /* 3D pen force feedback devices */

2025-06-23T09:52:28Z

3D pen force feedback devices

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:52, 23 June 2025
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	== 3D pen force feedback devices ==		== 3D pen force feedback devices ==
			{{wikitodo\|Add image of the device fro illustration.}}

	Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>		Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>

Apm: headline hierarchy change and headline improvement(?)

2025-06-23T09:51:39Z

headline hierarchy change and headline improvement(?)

Apm: /* nc-AFM (atoic force microscopy) does not meature foces but stiffnesses */ added two sections with quite a bit of discussion

2025-06-23T09:47:32Z

nc-AFM (atoic force microscopy) does not meature foces but stiffnesses: added two sections with quite a bit of discussion

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 In the small amplitude limit the math should become equivalent with a simple integration again fro any used method.
 {{Todo|Sow these limits for the two methods eventually. as this may help in intuition.}}
 == Existing attempts & lack of (linear) correspondence to real forces ==

Apm: /* Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability */

2025-06-23T09:11:27Z

Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:11, 23 June 2025
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	Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>		Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>
	{{wikitodo\|Find the article again that made that very clear.}}		{{wikitodo\|Find the article again that made that very clear. Hard.}}

	Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>		Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>

Apm: /* Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability */ added older product names

2025-06-23T09:11:02Z

Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability: added older product names

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:11, 23 June 2025
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	Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>		Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>
	'''"Touch" from 3D Systems.''' Formerly "Geomagic Touch" ~~or {{wikitodo\|find~~ other names ~~this was sold under}}~~.<br>		'''"Touch" from 3D Systems.''' Formerly "Geomagic Touch", "SensAble Phantom Desktop", "SensAble Omni", and maybe other names too.<br>
	These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.		These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.

Apm: /* Existing attempts & lack of correspondence to real forces */ basic section

2025-06-23T09:03:35Z

Existing attempts & lack of correspondence to real forces: basic section

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:03, 23 June 2025
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	{{Todo\|Sow these limits for the two methods eventually. as this may help in intuition.}}		{{Todo\|Sow these limits for the two methods eventually. as this may help in intuition.}}

	== Existing attempts & lack of correspondence to real forces ==		== Existing attempts & lack of (linear) correspondence to real forces ==

			See the paper in external links. <br>
			The issue there was that in none of the cases with nc-AFM <br>
			there was just a linearly scaled mapping of the real forces. <br>
			Not even a mapping of the much faster to attain frequency shifts. <br>
			(that are roughly proportional to the local surface siffness).

			Tip control stability and tip crash safety one reason given reason {{wikitodo\|(recheck)}}. <br>
			Thee should be means to prevent crashes while still leaving a slinearly scaled mapping though. <br>

			Major reason for their nonlinear mappings choices may have been their <br>
			understandable focus on scanning in the far very weak interaction range. <br>
			Rather than a focus on the more close and more tip crash risky interaction range <br>
			where the exponential nature tapered off (nearing the inflection point of growth of attractive forces). <br>

	== Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability ==		== Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability ==

Apm: /* Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability */ sub headlines cleanup and soem additions

2025-06-23T08:49:36Z

Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability: sub headlines cleanup and soem additions

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:49, 23 June 2025
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	== Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability ==		== Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability ==

			=== VR force feedback is mostly unrelated ===

	Note that this is quite unrelated and orthogonal to VR.		Note that this is quite unrelated and orthogonal to VR.
	* Force feedback there amouts to mere vibrations and not really forces. <br>Granted vibrations may be adjustable in intensity and thus allow a very low resolution analog to forces of one sign and one direction. <br> One direction is nc-AFM limit anyway but tther restrictions are way too severe-		* Force feedback there amouts to mere vibrations and not really forces. <br>Granted vibrations may be adjustable in intensity and thus allow a very low resolution analog to forces of one sign and one direction. <br> One direction is nc-AFM limit anyway but tther restrictions are way too severe-
	* There is no need for a 3D VR environment to benefit from force feedback. In how far a 3D VR environment my be helpful or not si an entirely different topic.		* There is no need for a 3D VR environment to benefit from force feedback. In how far a 3D VR environment my be helpful or not si an entirely different topic.

			=== 3D pen force feedback devices ===

	Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>		Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>
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	Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>		Expensive 3D force feedback devices as of 2025 (3k$ to 4k$) seem to be produced by only one company. <br>
	"Touch" from 3D Systems. Formerly "Geomagic Touch" or {{wikitodo\|find other names this was sold under}}.<br>		'''"Touch" from 3D Systems.''' Formerly "Geomagic Touch" or {{wikitodo\|find other names this was sold under}}.<br>
	These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.		These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.

			=== DIY force feedback devices ===

	DIY build force feedback devices may be an option too. <br>		DIY build force feedback devices may be an option too. <br>
	Unclear how difficult to built to sufficient specs. <br>		Unclear how difficult to built to sufficient specs. <br>
	Serial robot arm designs like the afore mentioned "Touch" seem difficult. Other geometries likely easier. <br>		Serial robot arm designs like the afore mentioned "Touch" seem difficult. Other geometries likely easier. <br>
			Coupling to a regular computer mouse may be an interesting option.
			"2D matching a vertical cross section. See: [[SPM user interfaces]] <br>
			The nc-AFM Force feedback is 1D limited anyway.

	Maybe 3D printer standard stepper motors spring scales and a few strings suffice at the hardware side. <br>		Maybe 3D printer standard stepper motors spring scales and a few strings suffice at the hardware side. <br>
	Perhaps useful components:		Perhaps useful components:
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	* [https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08GM1SP1C?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title Amazon – QWORK® Federwaage, Set mit 5 transparenten Federwaagen zum Aufhängen (1N, 5N, 10N, 20N, 30N)] (upper end?)		* [https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08GM1SP1C?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title Amazon – QWORK® Federwaage, Set mit 5 transparenten Federwaagen zum Aufhängen (1N, 5N, 10N, 20N, 30N)] (upper end?)
	* some thin braided fishing line - no stretch stiffness is key		* some thin braided fishing line - no stretch stiffness is key

			There are some existing projects on the web (2025) but none seem suitable ATM.

	== Related ==		== Related ==

Apm: /* Related */

2025-06-23T08:43:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:43, 23 June 2025
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	* [[Scanning probe microscopy]]		* [[Scanning probe microscopy]]
	* [[SPM software]]		* [[SPM software]]
	* [[SPM user interfaces]]		* '''[[SPM user interfaces]]'''

	== External links ==		== External links ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:51, 23 June 2025
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	Constant height mode is commonly used for nc-AFM. <br>		Constant height mode is commonly used for nc-AFM. <br>

	== Why not just feed forces to machine learning AI? ==		= Why not just feed forces to machine learning AI? =

	Q: Why not hook it up to machine learning AI? Doesn't that make force feedback for human operators obsolete? <br>		Q: Why not hook it up to machine learning AI? Doesn't that make force feedback for human operators obsolete? <br>
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	should very much be the most efficient (and thus most enjoyable) communication channel. <br>		should very much be the most efficient (and thus most enjoyable) communication channel. <br>

	== nc-AFM (atoic force microscopy) does not ~~meature foces~~ but stiffnesses ==		= nc-AFM – perhaps suprising facts =

			== nc-AFM (atoic force microscopy) does not measure forces but stiffnesses instead ==

	A historic naming accitent. Just like nc (non contact) is one too. <br>		A historic naming accitent. Just like nc (non contact) is one too. <br>
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	{{Todo\|Sow these limits for the two methods eventually. as this may help in intuition.}}		{{Todo\|Sow these limits for the two methods eventually. as this may help in intuition.}}

	== No force images, all Δf images (roughly stiffness images) ==		== nc-AFM gives no force images, all Δf images (roughly stiffness images) ==

	Getting the force from the Δf signal is in essence in core a hidden integration. <br>		Getting the force from the Δf signal is in essence in core a hidden integration. <br>
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	Rather reconstruction of forces is only suitable for single point spectra. <br>		Rather reconstruction of forces is only suitable for single point spectra. <br>

	== Δf stiffness image brightness not necessarily unique for height above surface ==		== nc-AFM Δf stiffness image brightness is not necessarily unique for height above surface ==

	Unlike with STM where current is monotonously growing with shrinking diastance, <br>		Unlike with STM where current is monotonously growing with shrinking diastance, <br>
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	* As a lower derivative this does not push the inner branch as far out. <br> The inner branch is at the inflection point of the energy which may be at a depth avoidably foe many mechanosynthesic reactions even.		* As a lower derivative this does not push the inner branch as far out. <br> The inner branch is at the inflection point of the energy which may be at a depth avoidably foe many mechanosynthesic reactions even.

	== Existing attempts & lack of (linear) correspondence to real forces ==		= Existing attempts & lack of (linear) correspondence to real forces =

	See the paper in external links. <br>		See the paper in external links. <br>
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	where the exponential nature tapered off (nearing the inflection point of growth of attractive forces). <br>		where the exponential nature tapered off (nearing the inflection point of growth of attractive forces). <br>

	== Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability ==		= Existing 3D force feedback hardware & (un)suitability =

	=== VR force feedback is mostly unrelated ===		== VR force feedback is mostly unrelated ==

	Note that this is quite unrelated and orthogonal to VR.		Note that this is quite unrelated and orthogonal to VR.
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	* There is no need for a 3D VR environment to benefit from force feedback. In how far a 3D VR environment my be helpful or not si an entirely different topic.		* There is no need for a 3D VR environment to benefit from force feedback. In how far a 3D VR environment my be helpful or not si an entirely different topic.

	=== 3D pen force feedback devices ===		== 3D pen force feedback devices ==

	Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>		Cheap 3D force feedback devices originally made for gaming (there was one called "Novint Falcon") have way too low resolution to be useful. <br>
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	These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.		These seem to have sufficient force resolution to be useful.

	=== DIY force feedback devices ===		== DIY force feedback devices ==

	DIY build force feedback devices may be an option too. <br>		DIY build force feedback devices may be an option too. <br>
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	There are some existing projects on the web (2025) but none seem suitable ATM.		There are some existing projects on the web (2025) but none seem suitable ATM.

	== Related ==		= Related =

	* [[Scanning probe microscopy]]		* [[Scanning probe microscopy]]
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	* '''[[SPM user interfaces]]'''		* '''[[SPM user interfaces]]'''

	== External links ==		= External links =

	* [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37783064/ (open access) 2023 – Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control] <br> Freeman M, Applestone R, Behn W, Brar V. Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control. Ultramicroscopy. 2024 Jan;255:113856. doi: 10.1016/j.ultramic.2023.113856. Epub 2023 Sep 22. PMID: 37783064.		* [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37783064/ (open access) 2023 – Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control] <br> Freeman M, Applestone R, Behn W, Brar V. Haptic sensation-based scanning probe microscopy: Exploring perceived forces for optimal intuition-driven control. Ultramicroscopy. 2024 Jan;255:113856. doi: 10.1016/j.ultramic.2023.113856. Epub 2023 Sep 22. PMID: 37783064.
	* 3D Systems Touch haptic device <br>https://www.3dsystems.com/haptics-devices/touch		* 3D Systems Touch haptic device <br>https://www.3dsystems.com/haptics-devices/touch