On the probability interpretation of quantum mechanics - Revision history

Apm: /* Related */

2026-07-18T15:12:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:12, 18 July 2026
Line 52:		Line 52:
	== Related ==		== Related ==

	* '''[[Heisenberg ~~uncertaintly~~ principle]]'''		* '''[[Heisenberg uncertainty principle]]'''
	* '''[[Quantum mechanics]]'''		* '''[[Quantum mechanics]]'''
	* [[The nature and shape of atoms]]		* [[The nature and shape of atoms]]

Apm: /* Related */ added back links

2026-07-18T14:06:10Z

Related: added back links

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:06, 18 July 2026
Line 52:		Line 52:
	== Related ==		== Related ==

	* [[Quantum mechanics]]		* '''[[Heisenberg uncertaintly principle]]'''
			* '''[[Quantum mechanics]]'''
			* [[The nature and shape of atoms]]
			An other perhaps controversial take:
			* [[On the particle wave duality]]

	== External links ==		== External links ==

	* {{wikitodo\|[https://x.com/mechadense/status/2037075811509882921 Post on X-platform with graphic to integrate]}}		* {{wikitodo\|[https://x.com/mechadense/status/2037075811509882921 Post on X-platform with graphic to integrate]}}

Apm: added image with description

2026-07-18T14:02:46Z

added image with description

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:02, 18 July 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
			[[File:Heisenberg see saw and probability interpretation.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|If the electron actually where at any time in the volume of the dashed box rather (than then in the volume of the whole atom) then it would have so much energy that the atom would get excited of even ionized. The electron would leave the nucleus. Yes, there are virtual states of the electron with that excess energy borrowed for short enough time. But these are not directly observable electron states. These are only indirectly observable as a simultaneous collective via the lamb shift. So it is not a probability for the electron to be there at some time with everywhere place else devoid of all electron density. That is the qualm with the probability interpretation tried to be conveyed here.]]

	== The irreducible see saw between size and speed ==		== The irreducible see saw between size and speed ==

Apm: /* Related */ added wikitodo

2026-06-25T13:04:40Z

Related: added wikitodo

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:04, 25 June 2026
Line 52:		Line 52:

	* [[Quantum mechanics]]		* [[Quantum mechanics]]

			== External links ==

			* {{wikitodo\|[https://x.com/mechadense/status/2037075811509882921 Post on X-platform with graphic to integrate]}}

Apm: added link to page Quantum mechanics

2021-05-29T09:37:50Z

added link to page Quantum mechanics

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:37, 29 May 2021
Line 48:		Line 48:

	Assuming the electron was in the measured freshly kicked out strongly localized state right after the collision is also inconsistent with quantum mechanics. Actually it is more like all possible collisions occur in a quantum parallel fashion (superposition of many freshly kicked out states) and the wave collapse only happens when the scattered electrons hit the detector (multi world interpretation of QM) or even later when you feed the measurement results without detour into a quantum computer. (One could say that parallel worlds "exist" in the sense that they can do useful work in form of quantum-parallel-computation and have measurable effects. Parallel worlds don't "exist" in the sense that they can't provide as much power as actual parallel computation - not that it could be implemented, and they don't "exist" in the sense that they can't be checked one after another exhaustively.)		Assuming the electron was in the measured freshly kicked out strongly localized state right after the collision is also inconsistent with quantum mechanics. Actually it is more like all possible collisions occur in a quantum parallel fashion (superposition of many freshly kicked out states) and the wave collapse only happens when the scattered electrons hit the detector (multi world interpretation of QM) or even later when you feed the measurement results without detour into a quantum computer. (One could say that parallel worlds "exist" in the sense that they can do useful work in form of quantum-parallel-computation and have measurable effects. Parallel worlds don't "exist" in the sense that they can't provide as much power as actual parallel computation - not that it could be implemented, and they don't "exist" in the sense that they can't be checked one after another exhaustively.)

			== Related ==

			* [[Quantum mechanics]]

Apm: /* A problem with the probability interpretation */

2021-05-29T07:50:20Z

A problem with the probability interpretation

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:50, 29 May 2021
Line 43:		Line 43:
	But there's a second problem even when accepting virtual particles as real.		But there's a second problem even when accepting virtual particles as real.
	Assuming the electron was (in a virtual sense) already in this overly localized spot before the collision occurred would be equilalent to assuming hidden local variables, which we now are not real from the bell experiments that proved that quantum entanglement is more than just a lack of knowledge in form of a real statistical difference. <br>		Assuming the electron was (in a virtual sense) already in this overly localized spot before the collision occurred would be equilalent to assuming hidden local variables, which we now are not real from the bell experiments that proved that quantum entanglement is more than just a lack of knowledge in form of a real statistical difference. <br>
	Well one still can maybe ponder about global hidden variables (pilot wave interpretation of QM).		Well one still can maybe ponder about global hidden variables maybe (pilot wave interpretation of QM).

	=== Wave collapse at the latest possible time ===		=== Wave collapse at the latest possible time ===

	Assuming the electron was in the measured freshly kicked out strongly localized state right after the collision is also inconsistent with quantum mechanics. Actually it is more like all possible collisions occur in a quantum parallel fashion (superposition of many freshly kicked out states) and the wave collapse only happens when the scattered electrons hit the detector (multi world interpretation of QM) or even later when you feed the measurement results without detour into a quantum computer. (One could say that parallel worlds "exist" in the sense that they can do useful work in form of quantum-parallel-computation and have measurable effects. Parallel worlds don't "exist" in the sense that they can't provide as much power as actual parallel computation - not that it could be implemented, and they don't "exist" in the sense that they can't be checked one after another exhaustively.)		Assuming the electron was in the measured freshly kicked out strongly localized state right after the collision is also inconsistent with quantum mechanics. Actually it is more like all possible collisions occur in a quantum parallel fashion (superposition of many freshly kicked out states) and the wave collapse only happens when the scattered electrons hit the detector (multi world interpretation of QM) or even later when you feed the measurement results without detour into a quantum computer. (One could say that parallel worlds "exist" in the sense that they can do useful work in form of quantum-parallel-computation and have measurable effects. Parallel worlds don't "exist" in the sense that they can't provide as much power as actual parallel computation - not that it could be implemented, and they don't "exist" in the sense that they can't be checked one after another exhaustively.)

Apm: /* A problem with the probability interpretation */

2021-05-29T07:48:33Z

A problem with the probability interpretation

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:48, 29 May 2021
Line 36:		Line 36:
	=== A problem with the probability interpretation ===		=== A problem with the probability interpretation ===

	When measuring a high energy electron-electron ~~collisions~~ the result will tell us that the electron in the atom was in a smaller space than the whole atom.		When measuring a high energy electron-electron collision the result will tell us that the electron in the atom was in a smaller space than the whole atom.
	But the electron was actually definitely not (in a non virtual sense) in a smaller space than the whole atom just before the collision.		But the electron was actually definitely not (in a non virtual sense) in a smaller space than the whole atom just before the collision.
	Well one still can define virtual electron states that violate Heisenbergs principle as "real".		Well one still can define virtual electron states that violate Heisenbergs principle as "real".

Apm: /* A problem with the probability interpretation */

2021-05-29T07:48:22Z

A problem with the probability interpretation

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:48, 29 May 2021
Line 36:		Line 36:
	=== A problem with the probability interpretation ===		=== A problem with the probability interpretation ===

	When measuring a high energy electron electron collisions the result will tell us that the electron in the atom was in a smaller space than the whole atom.		When measuring a high energy electron-electron collisions the result will tell us that the electron in the atom was in a smaller space than the whole atom.
	But the electron was actually definitely not (in a non virtual sense) in a smaller space than the whole atom just before the collision.		But the electron was actually definitely not (in a non virtual sense) in a smaller space than the whole atom just before the collision.
	Well one still can define virtual electron states that violate Heisenbergs principle as "real".		Well one still can define virtual electron states that violate Heisenbergs principle as "real".

Apm: /* Electrons as density clouds */

2021-05-27T19:17:57Z

Electrons as density clouds

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:17, 27 May 2021
Line 15:		Line 15:

	There are the earlier mentioned "virtual energy fluctuations" of electrons (not to confuse with the related virtual matter antimatter particle pairs arising from vacuum) which "exist" in the sense that they lead to measurable effects (forces). They do not "exist" though in the sense that they can be directly measured / observed. The electron cloud size that would correspond to these fluctuations can be much smaller than atoms (how small open is an question - but infinitely small points are a sure sign of a model breakdown).		There are the earlier mentioned "virtual energy fluctuations" of electrons (not to confuse with the related virtual matter antimatter particle pairs arising from vacuum) which "exist" in the sense that they lead to measurable effects (forces). They do not "exist" though in the sense that they can be directly measured / observed. The electron cloud size that would correspond to these fluctuations can be much smaller than atoms (how small open is an question - but infinitely small points are a sure sign of a model breakdown).


	== Probability interpretation likely motivated by results of scattering experiments ==		== Probability interpretation likely motivated by results of scattering experiments ==

Apm: moved over the remaining part - needs better integration eventually

2021-05-27T18:49:33Z

moved over the remaining part - needs better integration eventually

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:49, 27 May 2021
Line 1:		Line 1:

			== The irreducible see saw between size and speed ==

			Electrons density clouds in atoms (atomic orbitals – electrons in stable states belonging to the atom) can not be smaller than the innermost electron shell. If electrons in atoms would be smaller than the innermost electron shell (in a non virtual sense - more on that later) then they would need to have so much impulse (and kinetic energy) that they would leave the atom promptly. Why? Because electrons clouds in atoms have the smallest possible product of blurriness in space and blurriness in mass-motion (proper term: impulse). Squeezing the cloud any further down in space blows up the electron cloud in an abstract but very useful mass-motion space (proper term: impulse space). A "space" which describes a distribution over motion directions and speeds. This smallest possible product of blurriness in space and blurriness in impulse is called the "plank constant".
			The seesaw effect that:
			* makes tightly constrained electrons move more vigorously and that
			* makes electrons with a very precise temperature (very cold is easiest) very big
			is called the "Heisenberg uncertainty relationship".

	== Electrons as density clouds ==		== Electrons as density clouds ==
Line 7:		Line 15:

	There are the earlier mentioned "virtual energy fluctuations" of electrons (not to confuse with the related virtual matter antimatter particle pairs arising from vacuum) which "exist" in the sense that they lead to measurable effects (forces). They do not "exist" though in the sense that they can be directly measured / observed. The electron cloud size that would correspond to these fluctuations can be much smaller than atoms (how small open is an question - but infinitely small points are a sure sign of a model breakdown).		There are the earlier mentioned "virtual energy fluctuations" of electrons (not to confuse with the related virtual matter antimatter particle pairs arising from vacuum) which "exist" in the sense that they lead to measurable effects (forces). They do not "exist" though in the sense that they can be directly measured / observed. The electron cloud size that would correspond to these fluctuations can be much smaller than atoms (how small open is an question - but infinitely small points are a sure sign of a model breakdown).


	== Probability interpretation likely motivated by results of scattering experiments ==		== Probability interpretation likely motivated by results of scattering experiments ==